Do modern ham's lack tech know how ?

[Octane Red]

Weed out the old codgers, revoke licences if can't fit own antennas.
You serious or just on a wind up like?

Just pointing out the inequality of some suggesting that people are "no use" if they cannot fit a mic plug, a PL259 to a bit of coax or build their own equipment versus those that cannot complete the simple task of rigging an antenna to a chimney.

Its a similar anomaly when the full licence question bank delves deep into basic circuit theory, but is totally silent on things like working at height, correct and safe methods of fixing steel brackets to masonary, etc. Both things that radio amateurs are likely to do, or are likely to need doing.

So I expect a significant chunk of full licence holders will be clueless about putting together a tower scaffold and whether a 'Thunderbolt' fixes better than a Hilti expanding anchor. Which means if we have folk that cannot solder, its not necessarily that they don't have tech know how (the question posed by the OP), but just have different skills.

[Transwarp]

Weed out the old codgers, revoke licences if can't fit own antennas.
You serious or just on a wind up like?

Just pointing out the inequality of some suggesting that people are "no use" if they cannot fit a mic plug, a PL259 to a bit of coax or build their own equipment versus those that cannot complete the simple task of rigging an antenna to a chimney.

Its a similar anomaly when the full licence question bank delves deep into basic circuit theory, but is totally silent on things like working at height, correct and safe methods of fixing steel brackets to masonary, etc. Both things that radio amateurs are likely to do, or are likely to need doing.

So I expect a significant chunk of full licence holders will be clueless about putting together a tower scaffold and whether a 'Thunderbolt' fixes better than a Hilti expanding anchor. Which means if we have folk that cannot solder, its not necessarily that they don't have tech know how (the question posed by the OP), but just have different skills.

Nobody sane would expect a 8 year old child operator to shin up onto a roof or put up a scaffold tower to install an antenna, same for an elderly person, or disabled person of any age. Also there are visually impaired operators, most probably hearing impaired ones too.

Ham radio is diverse, folk need to think about and remember that.

As for H&S requirements fitting antennas, it doesn't apply in personal operations. You have to know what your doing yes, but if you get it wrong and your magnificent array of antennas come crashing down and cause damage, injury, or death to others it's on you and you alone. If you kill yourself by playing spider-person getting onto a roof, again that's on you alone.

Just enjoy radio and help others out if you can if they're struggling with something. We all have different abilities, skill sets, and experiences.

[Stronty]

There's plenty of bandwidth to go around, irrespective of country, ability or preference. Half the battle is getting your head round that what some folk like isn't what you like. Hopefully there will always be people who like SWL and Amateur radio and all it offers in-between. those with a good grounding in the Analogue so to speak and those that push the boundaries of digital comms (mesh etc.)

There's always going to be Fanny's and there's always going to be those that like to pass on knowledge, the hope is the later far outnumber the former.

Forums like this and others where people take the time to ask questions, provide detail, pictures, sound clips, and those that positively contribute to detail and experience are worth their weight in gold. Facepalm and other mediums are helpful for a short fix BUT its a pain to archive the detail.

Wish I knew what Simon TM01's thoughts are if the TM forum were ever to stop for whatever reason. Would Members be able to download the database and website files so we didn't loose all that information?

Some of you may remember when CBTricks was dead, there was an opportunity to download the whole thing (10Gig so you could have it locally) which i did.

[Antoni]

Without wanting to add clutter to the forum, but -

Me too!

I've always been looking for some cct info or other. Time after time the engines directed me to exactly what I wanted on here. That's why I joined.

There was a brilliant on-line RF units conversion calculator from Cantwell engineering. Used it often and tried to work out how to download the Excel file that must have powered it. Or something. The company's site still exists but the calculator has gone. Bugger.

[Octane Red]

Nobody sane would expect a 8 year old child operator to shin up onto a roof or put up a scaffold tower to install an antenna, same for an elderly person, or disabled person of any age. Also there are visually impaired operators, most probably hearing impaired ones too.

So really then, to address the OPs question, which is conveniently in the thread title, There should be no expectation of technical know how needed, over and above that needed to correctly operate the equipment. That would;

• Remove discrimination between those who can solder on a mic plug, but cannot shin up a chimney safely, and those who can shin up a chimney, but can't solder

• Align amateur radio with just about all other classes of licence, where its all about operating the equipment competently and legally, not about knowing at circuit level how it works.

I would be all for that. By way of example, under my Maritime Radio (Suppliers and Demonstrations) Licence, I can operate for test or demonstration, HF equipment with no specified power limit. However, I expect that will fall under the remit of my separate Operator LRC (Long Range Certificate) which specifies 1500 W for HF, and that is also probably mentioned in the Interface Requirements if I went to look them up. So with a test of your operator skills, you can be let loose with 1.5 kW on the HF marine bands if you are on a ship. Compare to the expectations for a full amateur licence which is the odd one out in radio licencing in requiring detailed circuit level knowledge, even though half the folk using HF nowadays are on SMT / SDR based rigs that their owners don't even look inside, let alone be able to identify a component on a circuit board.

So from what I read here, tech knowhow should be optional, especially if people are going to be selective about the tech know how that applies, and none of it is needed for operation anyway, even at 1 kW

As an aside, since marine HF has been mentioned, the local lifeboat here, which went through the Severn Class Life Extension Programme last year (one of two, I believe before the programme was cancelled), no longer has marine MF capability. For inshore waters, its VHF and if they go beyond that, its satellite phone. MF and HF appear to have been relegated to the history book. I guess that makes sense, as it avoids a multi day operators course for anyone that may need to use the radio, as well as long whips on the lifeboat. Now done with a satellite phone that anyone can use without a licence - Just dial the number and press send. And I don't expect the RNLI crew will be expected to describe the sat phone block diagram all the way from microphone to antenna.....

[Transwarp]

Compared to hams of yesteryear ? At one time almost everything in a hams shack was home built. Now you hear of folk who struggle to fit a mic plug. Far as i know the course & exams aren't as tech based as they used to be. So that could be one reason. Of course there is still a lot out there who really know their stuff. But I'm talking in general. My radio tech knowledge isn't bad. Problem is i can't see modern components due to their microscopic size.

It's the way of things B. You don't need to know how to do an oil and filter change to drive a car or ride a motorbike, or fix washing machine to operate one.

Bit like cars is radio. Beautiful paint jobs and tuned / remapped engines, or classic factory standard - both groups know their stuff. Then there's just the mainstream modern buy / lease it, use it, get rid in time group who have various knowledge about cars ranging from can do a weekend repair on the driveway to not sure where the screenwash or AdBlue goes.

Horses for courses, and l'd rather have loads of rookies making mistakes on the band's while learning rather than idiots jamming repeaters or chatting **** to others.

[Stronty]

Without wanting to add clutter to the forum, but -

Me too!

I've always been looking for some cct info or other. Time after time the engines directed me to exactly what I wanted on here. That's why I joined.

There was a brilliant on-line RF units conversion calculator from Cantwell engineering. Used it often and tried to work out how to download the Excel file that must have powered it. Or something. The company's site still exists but the calculator has gone. Bugger.

You mean this one.

cantwell2.jpg

cantwell1.jpg

You could use Gemini, Claude or CoPilot and ask them to interrogate the web calc which you can find > HERE on WEB ARCHIVE. With the correct instruction one of those will at least try to replicate your calculator in a google sheet or xlsx etc.

I've not spent any time on this but a starting prompt might look something like..... you will need to refine for sure.

Q - "can you provide a google sheet that works the same way for all of these converters please using information provided from that website and its backend?"

A - Summary of the Spreadsheet :
This calculator replicates the entire backend mathematics of the Cantwell Engineering RF Calculator. Since Google Sheets does not possess natively built-in formulas for specialized RF units (like \(dB\mu V\) or \(dBm\)), this spreadsheet uses standard electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) formulas to link them dynamically through a system impedance reference.

Inputs:
Cell B3: System Impedance (defaults to standard \(50\ \Omega\), but can be adjusted to \(75\ \Omega\), etc.).
Cell B5: Enter your starting numeric value.
Cell D5: Type or pick your input unit exactly as written (e.g., dBμV, dBm, V)

Outputs:
An internal reference cell (F5) automatically resolves your input value into absolute Watts (\(W\)). The main table below it uses that reference to instantly update all 18 target units across the Voltage, Current, and Power domains.

Would you like to expand this spreadsheet to include field strength calculations or antenna factors?

And take it from there.

RF_Unit_Converter.xlsx

[Stronty]

And upfront apologies to Admin and other if this takes away from your current thread, please fell free to move if necessary.

[paulears]

I smacked my forehead when octane red mentioned HF and the testing and demonstration licence. I also have the same licence, and sitting on a shelf is an Icom marine HF radio somewhere! I got it for a customer a few years back and his ocean going retirement got cancelled. I also have one of those software programmable Chinese HF sets in a flight case. If I get a chance I might fire them up and see what marine activity there actually is? Probably not a lot! The BT phone lines ran very close to my antennas on the office and I gave up with HF as I killed the local phones, but they’re all fibre now? Maybe time to try HF again?

[Octane Red]

Good luck finding anything other than the MSI broadcasts by coastguards on MF. Everything else is dead. Aside from the GMDSS satellite systems like Inmarsat, systems such as Starlink provide cost effective coverage that can be used for general internet access and recreational use. Means you can be in the middle of an ocean, but still in Whats App contact with the missus back home. Companies can have secure comms with the office back on shore, without anyone wigging in on what they are up to.

MF/HF only really remain due to the GMDSS requirement, but I expect that will get re-written shortly to phase out the need for MF/HF to be replaced with satellite.

[Octane Red]

As for H&S requirements fitting antennas, it doesn't apply in personal operations. You have to know what your doing yes, but if you get it wrong and your magnificent array of antennas come crashing down and cause damage, injury, or death to others it's on you and you alone. If you kill yourself by playing spider-person getting onto a roof, again that's on you alone.

A mildly concerning opinion - Health and Safety is a universal concept, not just limited to workplaces and employment - Perhaps you are confusing with such things as Health and Safety at Work legislation in its numerous forms?

Aside from that, the RSGB full question pool has a whole section on Safety, with 30 possible questions. Like the opinions on competency, it is rather selective though, which re-inforces my point that this selectivity can, and usually is, directed towards those who can sit in an armchair and reminisce on how things were 50 years ago. OK, that is rather tongue in cheek, but its following up my observation that question pool is full of 'olde skool' stuff and more or less totally silent on things relevant in the present day. Search the question pool for 'digital' for example, and only 20 questions come up. None deal with the realities of digital radio, but merely touch on the block diagram concepts of analogue to digital converters being placed somewhere between microphone and antenna. Something that is of little use to you if you are setting up your Anytone for the local DMR repeater....

[Transwarp]

As for H&S requirements fitting antennas, it doesn't apply in personal operations. You have to know what your doing yes, but if you get it wrong and your magnificent array of antennas come crashing down and cause damage, injury, or death to others it's on you and you alone. If you kill yourself by playing spider-person getting onto a roof, again that's on you alone.

A mildly concerning opinion - Health and Safety is a universal concept, not just limited to workplaces and employment - Perhaps you are confusing with such things as Health and Safety at Work legislation in its numerous forms?

Aside from that, the RSGB full question pool has a whole section on Safety, with 30 possible questions. Like the opinions on competency, it is rather selective though, which re-inforces my point that this selectivity can, and usually is, directed towards those who can sit in an armchair and reminisce on how things were 50 years ago. OK, that is rather tongue in cheek, but its following up my observation that question pool is full of 'olde skool' stuff and more or less totally silent on things relevant in the present day. Search the question pool for 'digital' for example, and only 20 questions come up. None deal with the realities of digital radio, but merely touch on the block diagram concepts of analogue to digital converters being placed somewhere between microphone and antenna. Something that is of little use to you if you are setting up your Anytone for the local DMR repeater....

Trying to be a smart arse on here isnt clever, l see through your words so don't try taking the proverbal ok?

[Buick Mackane]

Just a polite reminder to keep it friendly, Absolutely no need for things to get ugly.

[NightProwler]

Come on people now smile on your brother everybody get together try to love one another right now

[CookieRaider]

Personally, I think all hams should be adept at rigging their own antennae on the chimney. If you are not able to shin up there and fit an antenna, your licence should be revoked. That should help weed out all the old codgers who can't even get out of an armchair without an electric motor, or get up the stairs without a stairlift.

Personally, I love a good clamber about on the roof, whether from ladders or a MEWP.

So because of my disability you think i should hand in my full licence this place gets funnier by the day